11 comments

  • haunter 1 hour ago
    TRON wasn’t just an OS but a whole integrated system, it was meant to be used with different parts working together. There was a whole TRON house tech demo built in Tokyo back in 1989 https://youtu.be/7jPKEyM44GU

    If you want to try here is the BTRON 4.5 media, should work in modern VMs https://archive.org/details/chokanji

    https://youtu.be/yYfoCe6q28A

    https://social.tchncs.de/@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt/111885034...

  • ColdStream 1 hour ago
    I think it is like most software, especially in the OS space. The technology doesn't have to be the best, it just needs to get lucky enough to become a standard and build a moat with that.

    And by the mid 80's the moats were already very deep.

    Amiga couldn't over come the PC. IBM couldn't over come the moat of Windows with OS2. Intel couldn't overcome x86 with the i432 or Itanium. Luck and market forces from said luck played a huge part in determining who won.

    • specproc 1 hour ago
      > The report stated that the US had concerns about Japanese government market intervention to support the TRON OS and identified two specific markets where TRON was receiving government advantage.

      The US government is one hell of a moat.

      • childintime 25 minutes ago
        The financial center of the world selects its winners nearby. As simple as that. Businesses outside of the US have never had much of a chance.

        China does the same now, as the engineering center of the world. And they have to because the financial center is hyping them as a threat.

    • krige 1 hour ago
      > Amiga couldn't over come the PC.

      For reasons that had nothing to do with OS. Swap Steve Jobs with Irving Gould and Apple would be dead in under a decade too.

    • Aperocky 37 minutes ago
      Is it luck or bold product and marketing decision?

      Being first could be luck, or it can be foresight.

    • tonyhart7 48 minutes ago
      apparently China decision to ban US tech company and build their own counterpart is seen as Genius after 20 years
      • arkh 45 minutes ago
        One of the advantages of an autocracy: you don't need people's approval every 5 years so you can plan for decades. When you're right it is awesome. When you're wrong, well that's what the army is for.
        • lava_pidgeon 20 minutes ago
          That's selection bias. China was "lucky" to had the best strategy. But what about the dictatorships who stocked to the wrong strategy.

          Though it is still interesting to research about Industry politics. In Europe almost all economics looked trapped into the capitalism Vs socialism trap.

        • tonyhart7 41 minutes ago
          You can badmouth about China all you want but at least they are consistent where they stand

          while US flip flopping about invading middle east (like usual) or Greenland

          • hvb2 31 minutes ago
            I don't think he was badmouthing China at all. He's basically using different words to make the exact same point you're trying to make.

            When there's no real accountability, in a reasonable timeframe, it's much easier to plan long term.

            It's the same within companies. When the CEO assumes he'll be around for 5 years, should he shoot for the 10 year goal and reduce outcomes in the early years? Or does he just optimize for the next 5 years, thereby neglecting the long term goal?

          • villish 21 minutes ago
            Did you forget about what happened with Hong Kong?
            • pepperoni_pizza 6 minutes ago
              He's probably forbidden from speaking about it.
          • close04 26 minutes ago
            GP isn't "badmouthing" China, that description applies to every decidedly non-democratic country, one leader with the power, not the people.

            Autocracies are great in the hands of a competent leader who plans the economy long term, and the grows of the country for the benefit of the country and society (look up "benevolent dictators"). They are not afraid of long term plans, or pleasing the population in the short term. He can break some eggs now to feed the whole country tomorrow. This is not something a democratic leader can afford. They live in 4-5 years cycles to please an electorate who looks for immediate benefits.

            In the hands of an incompetent and abusive leader autocracy is a nightmare that's supported only by fear and violence against the people. These are most dictatorships. Society suffers but can't do anything for fear of being steamrolled by the army.

            China is straddling a middle ground where the country grew by leaps and bounds, faster than anything else in history probably, but they also use a heavy hand to do this.

            • Hikikomori 22 minutes ago
              Or you get trump, autocrat corruption without the planning.
              • ithkuil 16 minutes ago
                You can get those in a democracy too!

                The real difference is how can you get rid of those

              • close04 9 minutes ago
                > Or you get

                That "or" is described one paragraph down. It's the most common type of autocracy actually because it's the easiest to pull off. Incompetent and corrupt leader, access to an army, biggest temptation is for easy profit.

                Democracies are very susceptible to this kind of leader in the short term, because for a while it's easy to fool people into electing them. Until pockets and bellies start to stay empty. When popular support vanishes the army might step in to take that role.

                Successful planned economies need a competent leader first and foremost, one who's not tempted by short term personal gain but mainly long term gains for the country. They're rare as hen's teeth.

      • alansaber 24 minutes ago
        Certain fundamental technologies are national security. If you proport to be a superpower you can't have your nation be fully reliant on say the Mac OS. Same with agricultural imports, IC development, dot dot dot
    • close04 40 minutes ago
      > it just needs to get lucky enough to

      To not compete with something from a country which sees its interests threatened and has the power to squeeze you dry.

      The US intervention to apply pressure handed a weapon to an internal player, Masayoshi Son who just happened to make money selling US software. He used that weapon against his and US' competition. It's a playbook that the US used again and again when it saw its interests threatened by competition: hit the enemy hard below the belt while supporting another internal player who will also hit the enemy below the belt.

      Every other example you gave came from inside the US, even from the same company with multiple products. The market played the defining role there and pushed for survival of the fittest. In TRON's case "market forces" turned out to be US intervention.

  • msephton 1 hour ago
    Great to see these screenshots. Thanks for posting! Nintendo joy cons run a version of micro TRON. And the software IntelligentPad used a lot of TRON concepts. https://blog.gingerbeardman.com/2023/05/17/intelligentpad-co...
  • skeledrew 24 minutes ago
    Of course. Why would the US allow what's essentially their colony in all but name to control that much stack for a critical tech?
    • readthenotes1 4 minutes ago
      And we can blame greed of a Japanese man for actually causing the failure
  • PlunderBunny 13 minutes ago
    Some of the ideas for BTRON sound (to my naive understanding) like OpenDoc. Can anyone familiar with OpenDoc comment?
  • readthenotes1 3 minutes ago
    The description at the beginning makes it sound a lot like The Analyst that shipped with smalltalk-80, a Hypertext active dictionary.

    What could have been...

  • charcircuit 1 hour ago
    By 1989 MS-DOS was already dominant in Japan. Without being able to run DOS applications I struggle to see it actually take off. Microsoft on the other hand released Windows 95 with compatibility with DOS applications and it took off.
  • socalgal2 27 minutes ago
    Feels like clickbait to me. There were lots of OSes.

    Things like GEM, OS/2, Next, BeOS, GeOS, MSX, ... they didn't succeed and I'm sure you can write some clickbait article about why with conspiratorial anecdotes.

  • ktallett 1 hour ago
    This is a tricky one as it's similar to Amiga OS and Be OS where it's obviously so forward thinking but as other comments state that doesn't automatically lead to uptake.

    Of a similar ilk, I always felt the MSX base deserved a higher usage rate in the rest of the world, PC engine as a console too. Neither really took off elsewhere.

  • julio89u 32 minutes ago
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  • hiherer 1 hour ago
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