12 comments

  • 34679 1 hour ago
    Amendment 4:

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    Amendment 5:

    "..nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

    • gruez 1 hour ago
      >Amendment 4:

      He was charged for destroying evidence, not refusing a search

      >Amendment 5:

      Destroying evidence isn't testimony. Moreover he would have been in the clear if he just kept his mouth shut.

      • hamper653 1 minute ago
        > He was charged for destroying evidence, not refusing a search

        Evidence in regard to which investigation?

      • krapp 1 hour ago
        "Evidence" of what, exactly? What specific crime did they expect to find evidence of on his phone?
        • myrmidon 36 minutes ago
          They were pretty obviously hoping to find a specific crime to accuse him of (because he is a protester against the Atlanta "Cop City" thing).

          But no respectable judge would ever have issued a search warrant on the basis of "we want to rifle through his messages/contacts so we can hopefully accuse him of something".

          Protesters against this exact same thing were mis-prosecuted under "domestic terrorism" and "racketeering" charges before (got dismissed in 2025).

      • josefritzishere 1 hour ago
        Evidence of what? Destroying evidence assumes he is guilty of a crime which there be evidence of. Our system is predicated on an assumption of innocence. The normal threshold to accuse is a "reasonable, articulable suspicion." This does not meet that criteria.
        • gruez 47 minutes ago
          Well that's the thing with destroying evidence. If you destroyed it, it becomes harder (or impossible) to prove you did the crime. That's why it's not uncommon for people to be only charged with stuff like "obstruction of justice" rather than the actual crime they allegedly did.
          • tosti 40 minutes ago
            But you can't assume someone committed a crime.
      • Varelion 1 hour ago
        You wouldn't catch me making a defense case for obese nazis.
        • gruez 59 minutes ago
          Please try again with an actual argument rather than attacking people based on which "side" I'm on.
          • Humorist2290 54 minutes ago
            Is there any question the person who was baselessly charged with CSAM, then terrorism when they realized it was so obviously untenable, as a pretense to detain him would've been treated differently if he were on a different "side"?
            • gruez 44 minutes ago
              >the person who was baselessly charged with CSAM, then terrorism

              Source? Are we still talking about Samuel Tunick? The article doesn't mention it, and so far as I can tell he was only charged at the border crossing for obstruction.

          • Varelion 56 minutes ago
            [flagged]
            • gruez 54 minutes ago
              "obese nazis"?
    • robviren 1 hour ago
      But the bar for hauling someone to court and defacto punishing them financially and smearing them in the eyes of the public is so low. And the path to getting compensation for wrongful prosecution so fraught. What an easy tool the justice system is to punish uppity citizens thinking they don't have a king.
    • someothherguyy 25 minutes ago
      you don't have those protections at the border: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
      • josefritzishere 9 minutes ago
        Even Wikipedia spells out that invasive searches require "reasonable suspicion." So we return to the core question... suspicion of what? Suspicion is not a crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
      • OutOfHere 12 minutes ago
        There is no such exception allowed in the Constitution. And if a case is made that they're not legally in the US yet, then by the same logic, they should not be subject to all the same laws of the US yet.
  • floathub 1 hour ago
    According to the article, he was actually using GrapheneOS and gave the border official the Duress PIN. So I guess technically it was the official that erased the data :-)
    • spacebanana7 1 hour ago
      I wonder whether it'd be better for a duress PIN to delete existing data and also create a semi plausible artificial profile to hide the deletion event.
    • OutOfHere 10 minutes ago
      No, to my knowledge, they ask you to enter your PIN/password yourself. They don't enter it for you. I believe he entered it himself, at which point the erasure began. The erasure process was witnessed by the officer.
    • nkrisc 1 hour ago
      I don’t think that would fly as a defense in court.
      • phoghed 1 hour ago
        He’ll just have to pray the scene wasn’t recorded and his real PIN was one digit off
    • gruez 1 hour ago
      "I wired a bomb to the safe which triggers if you enter a given code. When the police asked me for the safes code I gave them that code, so it was technically the cop that killed himself and his colleagues"

      Or even

      "A soldier stepped on a landmine but since it was his footsteps that triggered the mine he technically killed himself"

      • hamper653 1 hour ago
        There is a difference between exploding a bomb and deleting your data. One is a crime.
        • mc32 1 hour ago
          Intentional destruction of evidence is also a crime. Now, whether this applies to this scenario I suppose will have to be determined by the courts.

          Destroying potential evidence before suspicion is not a crime. Destroying it once under suspicion is a crime. So anyone can destroy their data at their hotel room even just before entry even if the data contains evidence of crimes. Of course the courts could take that into evidence to support the argument that there were crimes but it would not be a crime in and of itself.

          • ComputerPerson 1 hour ago
            Great comment. Wish it was the top one so I didn't have to read through the others to get here.

            Do you have thoughts as to how the courts would debate the deletion that you could present on a similar intellectual plane?

          • LoganDark 45 minutes ago
            Destroying potential evidence before suspicion is a crime if done with intent to impede a future investigation, even if the investigation hasn't yet started. Your example would be a crime if it could be proven that there would likely have been evidence in what you deleted.
        • gruez 1 hour ago
          >There is a difference between exploding a bomb

          Mines (in wars, as implied by "solider") aren't illegal. Also even for the first example there are certainly improvised explosives you can set up that isn't criminal to create or set off, fireworks for instance. Same with a barrel of gasoline. It's certainly a crime to use it to kill someone, but that's my point. By OP's logic it's not the person who set it up's fault, it's the person who triggered it.

          • LoganDark 1 hour ago
            If you set up a device to explode once someone enters a room, it doesn't matter who set it off by entering the room if they had no idea the room would blow up.

            I don't think it'll be very easy to get out of liability in this case. The duress PIN is a feature explicitly designed to delete all data when it is entered, especially in cases of coercion like this. There would be more plausible deniability if officers had simply discovered it somewhere and tried it on their own, but in this case it was knowingly provided directly in place of the real PIN.

        • LoganDark 1 hour ago
          Deleting your data is absolutely a crime when you know the authorities could've wanted whatever it was you deleted -- even if they haven't told you yet. It stands to reason that providing a duress PIN that deletes your data when entered would be a crime as well, if said data is of interest.

          Not to say that I personally agree with either of those cases. But what is considered crime can get pretty unfair when it comes to the authorities thinking you did something wrong.

          • hamper653 20 minutes ago
            > when it comes to the authorities thinking you did something wrong

            Did they though? Was there an actual investigation going on?

            • LoganDark 4 minutes ago
              Here "wrong" includes phony bullshit like going after political activists. Even if you did nothing actually wrong, and you know it, and you can prove it, successfully messing with the authorities tends to be pretty difficult.
          • bdangubic 1 hour ago
            Can you provide a statute number for this crime please? Any federal or even state statute will do
            • someothherguyy 53 minutes ago
              • LoganDark 49 minutes ago
                > seems like a stretch though

                I think the issue will fall on whether the encrypted data on the device (or its decrypted counterpart) counts as property. The rest looks pretty clear-cut to me.

            • yodon 51 minutes ago
              > Can you provide a statute number for this crime please? Any federal or even state statute will do

              The google search required to find the answer ("federal statute for destruction of evidence") is shorter than your question here.

              "Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry..."[0]

              [0]https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519

              • hamper653 18 minutes ago
                > knowingly

                Did he know he was suspected of something? Was he suspected of something?

                • LoganDark 17 minutes ago
                  It's more about knowing the PIN would wipe the device, and providing it with that intent.

                  Edit: 18 U.S.C. § 1519 doesn't seem to cover this (unless it covers the act of setting up the duress PIN in the first place as "altering"). § 2232(a) covers actually knowingly providing the duress PIN.

            • gruez 1 hour ago
              • bdangubic 57 minutes ago
                First, that is not an actual statute and second exactly what "evidence" is my phone, evidence of what exactly?
                • LoganDark 36 minutes ago
                  Evidence of anything. You're tampering with evidence if you act to prevent them from seeing something, even if they had no reason for suspicion. Like how you get arrested for fleeing even if you didn't do anything wrong.
                  • hamper653 16 minutes ago
                    > even if they had no reason for suspicion

                    Are you sure about that?

            • LoganDark 53 minutes ago
              There is a federal criminal provision, 18 U.S.C. § 1519 (destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in federal investigations)

              > Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

              That covers the first part of my comment. As for the second part, there is 18 U.S.C. § 2232(a) (destruction or removal of property to prevent seizure)

              > Whoever, before, during, or after any search for or seizure of property by any person authorized to make such search or seizure, knowingly destroys, damages, wastes, disposes of, transfers, or otherwise takes any action, or knowingly attempts to destroy, damage, waste, dispose of, transfer, or otherwise take any action, for the purpose of preventing or impairing the Government's lawful authority to take such property into its custody or control or to continue holding such property under its lawful custody and control, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

              IANAL, but the encrypted data on the device can be considered property, and the act of providing the duress PIN in place of the real one can be considered a knowing action for the purpose of preventing the government either from continuing to hold that data under its control, or from seizing the data into its control in the first place (since the data was never decrypted).

              • hamper653 15 minutes ago
                > destruction of records in federal investigations

                There was a federal investigation going on?

                • LoganDark 5 minutes ago
                  That's not from the statute that applies in this case
  • neom 1 hour ago
    Legal Eagle just covered this, it's quite interesting analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2rokxux5cU
    • knute 52 minutes ago
      The guy from Game Changer?
      • neom 42 minutes ago
        [dead]
    • bena 1 hour ago
      Not even a minute in. "Oh, he's protesting Cop City, got it. This is just police harassment."
  • yellow_lead 1 hour ago
  • adfm 26 minutes ago
    I don't know about you, but don't people use encryption to retain privacy? And are people still free to manage their personal information? Doesn't a duress PIN present that information in its intended form? I'm confused.
  • phoghed 1 hour ago
    Seems like it would be better to have a truecrypt type of situation, where if you put in a certain pin, then it just logs you into a separate OS with nothing you want to hide.

    Obviously have the duress pin if what’s in your phone is worse than the obstruction charges too.

  • juancn 31 minutes ago
    I don't get the legal contradiction.

    The search is supposed to be lawful without a warrant because you're not really in the US yet per-se, hence if you're not there, how deleting the data can be a felony?

    • OutOfHere 8 minutes ago
      That is a most interesting and underrated point.
  • quickthrowman 1 hour ago
    Would it be permissible to wipe your phone before going through customs to get back into the US? If they ask to search your already wiped phone, you aren’t destroying any evidence.
    • OutOfHere 7 minutes ago
      Yes. Of course it is permissible. It is your device. The wipe must have completed before arriving at the counter.
  • amazingamazing 1 hour ago
    If the government wants you no amount of technical gotchas will prevent this.
  • pjc50 1 hour ago
    Paywalled, but what is the actual charge? Is it some extremely generic "obstructing an investigation" one? The US is quite good about making court documents available on line, if someone can find it.
    • hoppyhoppy2 1 hour ago
      The article says he was charged with obstruction.

      You can try this "gift link" to the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/21/us/politics/samuel-tunick...

      • OutOfHere 5 minutes ago
        The gift link shows only a fraction of the article text. Just stick to https://archive.is/SflVC.
      • floathub 1 hour ago
        He is charged with obstruction, but under domestic terrorism (as defined by a national security presidential memorandum).
      • hamper653 1 hour ago
        Obstruction to what though?
        • c0l0 1 hour ago
          Injustice ;)
        • stymaar 1 hour ago
          Illegitimate abuse of border control power to restrict freedom of speech.
    • jeroenhd 1 hour ago
      Knowingly providing a PIN that would erase evidence is going to get tough in court.

      But the man was also hated by the cops because of his activism. They were going to catch him for something, some day. This incident just provided the necessary excuse to lock him up.

      • myrmidon 49 minutes ago
        There is no duty to keep a copy of messages and private data on your phone for the FBI to peruse at its leisure. Quite the opposite, actually (according to the constitution).

        It is pretty clear to me that law enforcement conspired to abuse a border crossing to effect basically an unconstitutional search ("fishing expedition"), which it would never have gotten a warrant for.

        This is them being spiteful after that whole thing failed. Note how law enforcement basically admits this on the record. The whole thing is a disgrace; every decisionmaker involved in this should be sacked immediately.

      • hamper653 1 hour ago
        Evidence of what?
        • jeroenhd 1 hour ago
          Whatever they claimed they needed access for his phone to. Probably nothing serious that would be worth more than a fine, if anything. But now they've got him for deleting evidence, which is pretty bad.
          • hamper653 13 minutes ago
            > if anything

            That’s the crux of the matter, isn’t it? If there was no suspicion whatsoever, hence no investigation, then he couldn’t possibly obstruct it.

      • gonzalohm 1 hour ago
        How can they prove that? What if it was a glitch?
        • jeroenhd 1 hour ago
          That shouldn't be too hard. Get someone from Google or someone with any tech knowledge to explain to the judge how phones normally work, what encryption keys are, the implications of wiping an encryption key, and then get someone to show the difference between entering a normal PIN wrong several times and entering the duress PIN. You just need to convince the jury (or judge, if there is no jury for whatever reason).

          People have gone to jail or have been executed for less than a glitch. Theoretically a highly charged particle from space could've messed with exactly the right transistors exactly when entering the correct PIN and trigger the wipe process. There is no way to prove that didn't happen. But you don't need that kind of proof.

        • tosti 20 minutes ago
          Right, the halting problem means one can hardly prove anything at all when it comes to software.
      • bdangubic 1 hour ago
        > They were going to catch him for something, some day. This incident just provided the necessary excuse to lock him up

        funny reading this (don't disagree) and then also reading on HN how China is "bad" this is some gestapo shit but not surprising that it is getting normalised ...

        • jeroenhd 59 minutes ago
          China is strictly worse than the USA when it comes to border controls. That doesn't mean the USA is good or acceptable in any way; these laws are part of the reason why I don't plan on visiting the country. The USA also has much worse laws on the books, like having to give the authorities your social media passwords to check if you're secretly a terrorist (though that doesn't apply to citizens).

          Excessive border patrol power has been around in the USA for ages now, it's all part of the post-9/11 package. I don't think many Americans even know they live in a zone where the border police can do shit like this, even if they haven't left the country, as international airports are usually near big cities, and they have a wide border zone around them. This stuff only really makes it into the news when it happens to one of the "good guys".

        • deaux 1 hour ago
          China is indeed "bad" for the gestapo shit. The difference is that China's gestapo shit comes with benefits for the common man too, whereas in the US the gestapo shit only serves the inner circle at the top of the regime with zero benefits to 99% of the populace.
    • owlninja 1 hour ago
  • jmclnx 1 hour ago
    Yet another case that will waste the court's time and money. All this is doing is keeping defense lawyers pocket's lined.

    At this point, people should buy a burner phone when going to/from the US. In that phone only have a couple of phone numbers and that's it.

    • Sharlin 1 hour ago
      Oh, they may well give you bad time if your phone looks like a burner with too little content.
      • nucleardog 42 minutes ago
        This is not... advice. But if anyone's actually going to do this, the method that's worked for me...

        A couple weeks before your trip, factory reset whatever burner phone you're planning on using and swap your SIM card over. Install a few basic apps you wouldn't mind them looking through. Enable hotspot/tethering, and connect your other phone via Wi-Fi.

        For a couple of weeks, use the burner as much as you can with what is available on it. When you're driving, us the maps app for GPS. Make and receive some calls, ignore some spam calls. Read the news. Get a few inane text messages conversations going, etc.

        When you travel, leave your regular phone at home and take the burner. When it's searched at the border, it has enough activity to pass most initial smell tests. If asked, you dropped your other phone and didn't have time to get it fixed before your trip, this is one a friend lent you.

        This has worked for me. Never _actually_ into anything illegal, but just apparently had a suspicious vibe about me or something because every time I crossed the border into or out of the country I was spending 4-5 hours getting searched. Didn't need someone going through my entire life going back decades every time--once was enough.

      • GJim 57 minutes ago
        > Oh, they may well give you bad time if your phone looks like a burner with too little content.

        Issuing 'burner phones' and laptops to staff visiting countries such as China or the USA is now SOP for many companies handling sensitive data, including mine.

        Don't think this isn't unusual.

      • iamnothere 1 hour ago
        If you are a citizen it doesn’t matter. They have to let you in.
        • ydat 42 minutes ago
          Wouldn’t be the first time the US government grossly abused its own citizens and violated their rights
      • skinfaxi 1 hour ago
        If you are a citizen like this person is then you can tell them to fuck off, they can keep the phone, and they have to let you in.
        • nucleardog 1 hour ago
          They have to let you in. Doesn't mean they have to let you roam the country freely. They can just send you to some form of detention.
          • iamnothere 1 hour ago
            That isn’t true. They can detain you briefly for questioning at the border, but if there is no crime then you will be released. Feel free to dig into historical court cases about border detention if you disagree.

            If you get charged with a crime, things are very different.

            • nucleardog 36 minutes ago
              Nope, no disagreement. I just see your take as very optimistic.

              There is no court at the border. If the agent decides you're going to jail, you're going to jail. The decision may be reversed/corrected after, but it's still going to be a big, expensive problem for you and you _are_ going to be detained for a time.

              Not to mention walking up with an empty phone and telling the agent to "fuck off" when they ask about it sure sounds eerily similar to the facts of the case in the linked article. I'd wager that's a good way to land an obstruction charge.

              • iamnothere 3 minutes ago
                If the abuse is egregious, you have a decent chance of pro bono representation or a lawsuit payout. In any case, activism comes with personal risk, and part of activism is accepting that risk while attempting to protect others. (This person was an activist, and it’s likely that they wanted to confine the damage to themselves.)

                For the second part, having an empty phone is not a crime, and being arrested for this would be a major scandal. The tech press and political outlets would be all over it. It’s generally a good idea to avoid directly antagonizing border guards, though.

      • bdangubic 1 hour ago
        They won't unless you are already on "their list" My phone basically looks like a burner phone, I do not use social media, do not install apps, my iphone fits (with room to spare) all "apps" on a "single page." I just call and text from my phone and have a browser and maps and that is basically it.
    • iamnothere 1 hour ago
      Also, you might accidentally drop your burner in the lake/ocean before you return. It happens!
    • ramgine 1 hour ago
      Think it’s better to travel without a phone at all and buy one when arriving in the us? Problematic I guess with everything being digital
      • hamper653 3 minutes ago
        It has been standard practice for some time now in some European companies.